Armed gas pipe with lithitarium
Regardless of the pipes, materials, and sealants, the air pressure test did not come to understand, because you speak of a water column, from what I understand you used a water column pressure gauge, and this is not the test, but with a needle gauge, (of enough diameter to see the minimum variations well), and, pressures of several Kg./cm2, (minimum 6), and wait several hours to notice if there were losses. luck
I used a water column pressure gauge, the same one used by the Gas Natural Ban controls, I have a friend who works there. In any case, what matters most to me is to know how long to let the lithhargee set, and if it is convenient to paint the joints with epoxy before testing. The pressure loss was very slight and they are not lost in the test with soapy water, so the only thing that occurs to me is that it loses through pores that remain in the joints and are not visible to the eye. Someone who works with these materials to confirm how much to wait to try.
Hi leo. I want to ask you: How did you put pressure on the pipe? The use of gliserin is perfect (just use gloves to apply it or a wooden or rubber spatula) I prepared it on a tennis ball cut in the middle. Answer me the question and we continue ... Greetings
Hello, before testing or service, let the litharge dry 48 hours, I have not used it for years, I use trabasil that is more reliable and in a few hours is ready to put it into service. And at 180 grams it will be difficult for you to see a bubble, you will have to inflate a little more at least 300 grams, and test each union with detergent water.
Inject air into the pipe blowing through the pressure gauge hose, it is a short stretch, even the first time I was going to test it, I had to release air from the pipe since one of the pressure gauge columns passed and lost the water. That's why I don't think I can give it too much, maybe if I reach about 200.
Leo I understand your confusion, gasban, to regulate the pressure of the gas it delivers, it does it with a meter that allows you to set a pressure as low as 180 grs / cm2, so use it on a water pressure gauge, and not Hg. (mercury), but to look for gas leaks in any facility, the pressure must exceed 6 kg / cm2 and the pressure gauge should look like a spout, (large), to see how many mm / cm2 decreases during a whole night, or in more than 12 hours. All the rest is not knowing the control systems. luck
OK, I understand what you tell me, now, exactly now I am testing on that section, I am giving air with an inflator and I do not find that it bubbles anywhere, testing with water with detergent. I know that in my area they will make passes to renew the meters, if they test me with the same pressure gauge that I buy and the pressure decreases they cut my gas, And for worse with the new pipe, I understand that they talk to me of control methods and that they talk to me about manometers that resist 6 kg, but the test that makes natural gas ban if I do it should give me good, right?
What occurred to me to give him more pressure and try to find losses if there are any, is to put a stopper on one end and on the other connect a carafe, and there with the pressure of the carafe to search for losses, I would do it outdoors. I would even buy a 4 or 10 kg needle gauge.
Hi. The regulatory pressure gauge is 1 kg maximum with glycerin bath, it is on the scale. The larger the diameter the better, the more kg the reading is difficult in the face of small variations. But I insist that the manometer is not required to search for the leak.
I say about the pressure gauge to control the pressure I can get with the carafe, first of all what I thought is to connect the carafe directly to the initial elbow and give it gas, that that small section is filled and keeping the carafe open use soapy water, that will give more pressure than lung or an inflator. Can I do that or is it crazy what I raise? With regard to the tap I think that if it is conical, after making each thread we tried the pieces and they came in perfect.
I will try to upload a homemade test gauge with disused parts, everything is put in a plastic box (for protection) and is very easy to do. At the inlet and outlet gas hoses (mayadas) Greetings
The safety valve is to allow the entry of air but not its exit, to remove the pressure the discharge valve is used.
Greetings and I hope you find it useful.
A query for MDQ Heating, you said you used TRABASIL, which one do you use? Does the RED STRONG STRONG? Now I realized that the threads I am using are BSP but they are not conical, I do not know if the litharge will be sealing well, maybe another sealant is suitable, right?
Apparently the mistake was to make a linear thread, now I changed the litigation to Trabasil in the junctions I had lost and this morning I did a test and it went well. For the doubts and of ball breakers this afternoon I will try it again, if the trabasil works I will continue doing all the pipe with that, because I already have all the threads made and I do not get the tapered bearings. This thread had been consulted by my professor of the gas course a few days ago, he told me that the conical threads were better but that either one is used. Imagine what level this course has ...
The issue is that I can not give more with that device to measure, because it overflows the water with too much pressure, I also put that in one column the water rose to 18, you have to add everything that the water under in the other column to have the total pressure, or not ?, I just made that description so that it is understood that there was a slight leak and know what the problem may be, Thank you
As an anecdote, a theme like yours happened on the coast, short section, few joints and the column went down, I could not sleep all night. The next day I realized that the cold outside made my lungs inflated column down but then it was stable. Use an inflator and holy remedy. That is why in cold areas they use pressure gauge. Regards.
Leo To locate leaks you cannot use the water column. When you are sure there are no problems or losses you use the 20mm column and it does not have to move.
OK, then I would do the following to see what you think. I do not use the water column and directly send pressure to the pipe with inflator, there with a lot of pressure in the pipe I do the test with water and detergent in the joints, I suppose if there is a leak I should detect it with this higher pressure, and if the I find and fix it just there I do the water column test.
This is bad for me because I didn't even finish, I did a stretch and stopped to try it and I find this problem that doesn't let me move forward.
Yes Leo, that would be right. It is preferable to find the leak before proceeding further. Not only do you control the threads, also the elbows or pieces that you have placed, it will not be something that one is blown, it would be very bad luck but .... it happens. Regards.
I am testing right now, the pressure gauge continues to drop, I gave air to the pipe with an inflator and another person was testing with water and detergent and there is no bubble anywhere, I understand that much more pressure is needed but I insist that if I do the pipe because I see that it does not lose with air as it is happening to me and I finish it, after I fall out of gasban, they do the same test to me and as the pressure drops the gas cuts to me, does my concern be understood? I no longer know what to do, for me there are no losses but the pressure gauge says otherwise, will I be using it wrong? Someone who gives me instructions for use
What occurred to me to give him more pressure and try to find losses if there are any, is to put a stopper on one end and on the other connect a carafe, and there with the pressure of the carafe to search for losses, I would do it outdoors. I would even buy a 4 or 10 kg needle gauge.
In the end I did that, I bought a manometer as detailed in the regulation, 100 mm in diameter of quadrant and 1 kg, and also as the regulation says I did the test at 200 grams, always leaving it between 15 and 20 minutes, so the needle or it moves, that is to say that my conclusion is that the water column is crap or at least the one sold to me. With the manometer later I did tests at more pressure, up to 500 or 600 grams, and between 15 and 18 minutes and it shows a fall, like that of 500 grams drops to 499 grams. But that's it, the test done as the regulation asks for goes well.
As for the column check the union of the pointers, it is the only place that can be wrong, or, return it and buy something else. Regards
Hi Ricardo, thank you, yesterday I kept checking because I distrusted it to move, I gave pressure to the maximum possible with an inflator and found losses (micro losses I would call them), in joints between pipes and elbows, and that they were already painted with two hands of epoxy I'm thinking of taking apart and putting together again, I don't think I can solve it by giving you more paint, right? To disassemble I have to heat the joints, right? Because I tried with direct force wrenches and it is impossible. What if I disassemble by heating the parts, can I clean them well and use them again? Anything you have to keep in mind?
Hi leo. The paint does not seal, it only prevents the oxidation of the exposed to the weather. The correct thing is that you warm the pieces well to be able to unscrew and reassemble. Clean the parts well using a clean threaded pipe. The preparation has to be without lumps and pasty and by hand the piece must not pass from the middle of the thread (if it is loose) The thread must be BSP Whitworth. Regards
The image of the tester that I attached to you is very useful when you work alone, give it pressure and the valve keeps it while you try, it also serves for water pipes and sewers, for the latter there is an inflatable plug, in order ... I found it very useful when I worked. Luck and comment any questions.
How is it that half the thread does not pass by hand? For example, I have to screw a pipe into an elbow. Do you say that the thread of the pipe is long enough so that when I reach the bottom of the elbow I get over a couple of turns and take advantage of those turns to adjust with the key?
No, what I am saying is: the thread must have the amount of threads stipulated according to its measurement, but when testing the piece before assembling (suppose an elbow) it cannot pass beyond half of the thread made, The other half has to be locked. It is understood? If you can screw the piece to the bottom by hand, it will be loose for two reasons 1) Very deep thread 2) The thread is not conical.
Disarm, clean the threads with tiner and assemble a new section, the water column continues to fall, today I will give pressure trying to find leaks, although I did the test leaving the water commune without connecting to the pipe section only with a snap in the hose, I left it all night and today it was down, I don't know if I trust that column. I do not dare to put together the pipe of one, if I have losses I would have to disassemble it completely, and I do not have so much faith since it is the first job I do. Another thing, I checked that the threads are not conical, my tap is a Sanogass SG4, it brings linear threads
Apparently the mistake is that, now replace the lithargy with Trabasil in the places where I had lost and this morning I did a test and it went well. For the doubts and of ball breakers this afternoon I will try it again, if the trabasil works I will continue doing all the pipe with that, because I already have all the threads made and I do not get the tapered bearings. This thread had been consulted by my professor of the gas course a few days ago, he told me that the conical threads were better but that either of them can be used. Imagine what level this course has ...
I imagine!! The regulation is clear in that sense (and in everything) It is not about the sella rosca, I took into account that these unions are going to be exposed to dilations and contractions (only because of the different temperatures) Is it a job for your house? the more you will spend making new threads (well done). I don't know, think about it, I wouldn't do it at home. Well ... it should not be done anywhere, but less in your home. You will have to buy the same, if you are going to do that. Good tools are necessary for a good job. >>>
>> Another tip that the "teacher" may not have given you is that you never use oil to make the threads, use a lubricating paste for dies (there are several brands), they will not be dull for a long time and the threads come out very clean . Regards
Yes, use a lubricant that is of consistency like oil but is specifically for dies or other similar things. I did the test again, unsubscribe, continue to lose the unions with litharge, those with trabasil are doing well, despite not being conical threads, decided, everything but absolutely everything will go with trabasil. I already consulted sanogass to see if conical bearings are obtained for my tap, I am waiting for an answer, because I think they are on vacation
Hi Leo, I insist because it is very important. It is not about the sealant you use, even if you are determined to do everything with trabasil, if you work the threads badly, sooner or later you will lose, if it is inside a wall you will not notice it, but it will happen. Take care to make the threads as it should and then seal with what is most practical to you. BUT PERFORM THE THREADS WELL.
Greetings and excuse the insistence. Good luck.
The BSP thread indicates the angle of the thread (55 °), the thread can be parallel BSPP or tapered BSPT, tapered tapered t. BSPT (conical) is used for gas. Reason: all the pieces for gas are conical (elbows, curves, nipples, etc.) the only straight is the "connection nipple", since this is used to splice two sections and has a counter nut to just tighten the threads together.
You use the pot you want, but I knew the difference and why. Regards
I leave an interesting link on the subject http://www.rmmcia.es/blog/productos/tipos-de-roscas-rosca-bsp-o-rosca-gas
I continue: When screwing something straight into something conical the seat of the threads will not be even, half a piece is tight and the other half with slack, result: a bad union. You can solve it with different products, but it will always be wrong. Sorry to break the bo..s but that is the truth of the Milanese.
Thank you, I am using epoxy pipe because much of the pipe is exposed to the outside and that with thermofusion could not do it, it must be embedded if or if. Maybe try that sealant you tell me, I did not want to use it because they gave me bad references and told me that the best thing was litharge and glycerin. I hope everything has dried up for today and the proof of good.
The thermofusion pipe, can go outdoors, only to be covered, with aluminum tape, is allowed by regulation,
Hello, what sealer do you recommend? Because many of those I saw say they don't harden, such as the Parcecs, is that used in artifact connections, in which you would use teflon? Several told me about Trabasil and I saw that there is low, medium and strong torque, I don't know what is suitable for the assembly of the whole pipe. One fact, I just realized that with my tap the threads are linear and not conical.
In the end I did that, I bought a manometer as detailed in the regulation, 100 mm in diameter of quadrant and 1 kg, and also as the regulation says I did the test at 200 grams, always leaving it between 15 and 20 minutes, so the needle or it moves, that is to say that my conclusion is that the water column is crap or at least the one sold to me. With the manometer later I did tests at more pressure, up to 500 or 600 grams, and between 15 and 18 minutes and it shows a fall, like that of 500 grams drops to 499 grams. But that's it, the test done as the regulation asks for goes well.
You are making it long. We already gave you the solution. Close the subject. Your unions are wrong. They lose
Hello, today they bring me another one and we are going to try, there are no stopcocks yet, just assemble a section of a little more than 6 meters all of the same pipe, an elbow with a section of approximately one meter and another elbow with one more section 30 or 40 cm. I also have one elbow at the beginning and another elbow at the end. I got there and before continuing Until the first device I wanted to try, I put the curtain for the manometer on one elbow and a plug on the other and still here we are
What occurred to me to give it more pressure and try to find losses if there are any, is to put a stopper on one end and on the other connect a carafe, and there with the pressure of the carafe look for losses, I would do it outdoors. I would even buy a 4 or 10 kg needle gauge
hello the needle gauge has to be 1/2 kilo 500 grams does the test at 200 grams for 15 to 20 minutes if the test passes the complete pipe always observing piece by piece that do not have any pores in the seam tight gun tight do not turn what you have already done greetings
If you try and keep losing because it is a short stretch, the one that you armed disarms it and starts back, assembles the pipe of a piece of sections, it starts and ends, you can not lose unless there is a test punctured piece with a needle gauge at 200 grams, all plugged and open key
In the end I did that, I bought a manometer as detailed in the regulation, 100 mm in diameter of quadrant and 1 kg, and also as the regulation says I did the test at 200 grams, always leaving it between 15 and 20 minutes, so the needle or it moves, that is to say that my conclusion is that the water column is crap or at least the one sold to me. With the manometer later I did tests at more pressure, up to 500 or 600 grams, and between 15 and 18 minutes and it shows a fall, like that of 500 grams drops to 499 grams. But that's it, the test done as the regulation asks for goes well.
Hi Mariotti, thank you, yesterday I kept checking because I distrusted it to move, I gave pressure to the maximum possible with an inflator and found losses (micro losses I would call them), in joints between pipes and elbows, and that they were already painted with two hands of epoxy I'm thinking of taking apart and putting together again, I don't think I can solve it by giving you more paint, right? To disassemble I have to heat the joints, right? Because I tried with direct force wrenches and it is impossible. What if I disassemble by heating the parts, can I clean them well and use them again? Anything you have to keep in mind?
hello: if it is best to disassemble it should go out without heating because it is something just done, clean the threads with a wire brush, the litharge, rather lightly, almost throwing it in liquid when you screw mobelo backwards a couple of times and adjust to see that the litharge has a Duckling yellow color because it may be defeated arm the entire pipe of one always with the care that you do not turn at any point wait 24 hos and try 200 grams greetings
Disassemble, clean the threads with tiner and assemble a new section, the water column continues to fall, today I will give pressure trying to find leaks, although I did the test leaving the water commune without connecting to the pipe section with only a snap in the hose, I left it all night and today it was down, I don't know if I trust that column. I do not dare to put together the pipe of one, if I have losses I would have to disassemble it completely, and I do not have so much faith since it is the first job I do. Another thing, I checked that the threads are not conical, my tap is a Sanogass SG4, it brings linear threads
The gas threads have to be conical, change the tap or send them to the hardware store or house where you bought the pipes, you can assemble the entire pipe if you have lost everything is not disassembled if not at the point where it loses and joins with threaded connection, I use litargirio I never fail but I work lightly and I do the threads well. The measurement can change minimally with room temperature even with pressure gauge if it is cold low and with heat it can rise several points
Apparently the mistake is that, now replace the lithargy with Trabasil in the places where I had lost and this morning I did a test and it went well. For the doubts and of ball breakers this afternoon I will try it again, if the trabasil works I will continue doing all the pipe with that, because I already have all the threads made and I do not get the tapered bearings. This thread had been consulted by my professor of the gas course a few days ago, he told me that the conical threads were better but that either of them can be used. Imagine what level this course has ...
I am glad that the test went well, I also take the trabasil as I indicate heating to whom I send greetings if you recommend it or doubt it now I will also use it I am sure it is cleaner and neat to work it greetings
20 years ago I use litargirio and never lost a thread even when I left the course that I did my first gas installation with hand tap, then I made hundreds of gas installations I was 10 years maintaining 25 buildings I'm surprised that you can not with the litergirio , but well I take it I will also use trabasil from now on greetings
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Curso Refrigeración Comercial Aplicado a Diagnóstico y Reparación
