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Household Electricity

Home electrical installations

unildo57
hace 5 años
hace 5 años
Hello people. A question how to find the problem of a home installation that the circuit breaker cuts for no apparent reason. Ex. Cut today in the morning and then tomorrow afternoon. And so maybe 2 or 3 days go by and it doesn't. And then cut again within 5 days. I have reviewed and failed to find the problem. Thanks Unildo Franzoi
elektomaq
elektomaq
62.202
hace 5 años
hace 5 años
Hello you must keep in mind that a circuit breaker (differential) operates due to an insulation fault that generates a residual current of 0.03A and therefore requires special measuring instruments to detect In general, the first thing that is done in these cases is to reverse the polarity of the circuit breaker (only provisionally, then it must be returned to its original position) to see if by doing this we get the differential to operate instantaneously. If we achieve this we can detect the leakage by discarding more quickly and efficiently If this method does not work, we must think of three possible causes: 1- there is a leak but it is too small to fire the device by itself and only trips when the voltage is higher than usual increasing the leakage intensity 2- there is no leak but the device is internally damaged operating without reason at any time 3- sympathetic firing, different alterations in the current wave can produce a false leak effect and shoot intespectively. It can be of different origins, from a false contact, large number of electronics, harmonics, electrical noise etc. There are many ways to remedy it from dividing between several differentials, placing a superimmunized differential, placing filters or being a false contact just correct it , it can be even before the device Regards
unildo57
hace 5 años

Returning to the same cause I see that the electrical installation is three-phase feeds an air of 14000. Cold Wats. Two photocopier machines don't know how to use it. And 12 LED fluorescent 35w. Can you tell me how many amp the general thermal should be. And the appropriate circuit breaker?

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elektomaq
elektomaq
62.202
hace 5 años

Is there single phase or three phase?
If it is monophasic, you would have to think of a 10 mm² sectional circuit and a 40 A thermal circuit and a 63A / 0.03A differential
The air equipment consumes about 25A
The photocopiers have no idea but I don't think it's too much.

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unildo57
hace 5 años

It is three-phase I have seen that the circuit breaker is 40amp and the thermal ones are 15 and 20 amp. And it seems to me that the conductors are 4 mm.

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elektomaq
elektomaq
62.202
hace 5 años

If the air is three phase it consumes about 8A per phase so it would be correct

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unildo57
hace 5 años

That data I will find out. I was in doubt about whether it is monophasic or three-phase ...

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elektomaq
elektomaq
62.202
hace 5 años

Okay . we await confirmation

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unildo57
hace 5 años

Another clarification; within the same business there are 3 photocopiers 2 of them when touched with the pager turns on its light. I checked that today. I planned to put a javelin to channel the discharge to the ground. Can be?

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elektomaq
elektomaq
62.202
hace 5 años

Yes. The javelin is mandatory

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unildo57
hace 5 años

Hello, I take this opportunity to comment on the reference topic. It's been raining a week ago. If it would be moisture problems the circuit breaker flash should jump every so often. Well, he didn't jump at any time. Anyone have any comments about it? °°°°°

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elektomaq
elektomaq
62.202
hace 5 años

Unildo
2 days ago you told Nastor:
".... the external spotlights with photocell is not because today the differential jumped again ..."
There you said that the differential jumped two days ago

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elektomaq
elektomaq
62.202
hace 5 años

If you can upload an image of a single-line diagram of the installation to know how the circuits are distributed, something very professional is not necessary. Only it is understood how it is armed

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unildo57
hace 5 años

Hello, nothing unusual about another circuit, a triphasic descent that is for the air of 14000 w and distribution of single-phase lines for the lights for the shots and for the 3 photocopying machines. What I have noticed that these machines do not have earthing. Comment that the week before today was a week of high humidity and little sun, and the circuit breaker has not jumped.

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nastor
nastor
17.232
hace 5 años
hace 5 años
Hello There is no simple way to look for a sporadic ground fault, the reason is water somewhere, and I am not mistaken when writing, most of the time it is water, not contact moisture. I will not try to tell you how to look for a fault, if you look for my post about it I commented several times, I even made a summary that circulates there; This is not because of vague or disinterested, it is simply because you will not find it with search methods in this situation, except with instruments, since when it is an area of wet cables the readings are all limited, on top of wasting a lot of time in Prepare for testing with 500 volts. Then you can try two or three things, some simple ones like reversing the installation, changing the differential circuit breaker, or spending a few pesos on a 10mA differential circuit breaker (this is the best option) since it will jump many earlier, but several failures may appear. If the circuit breaker jumps, you look for the fault by disconnecting sectors until there is so little you can take apart. In the situation you are today, I advise you to check outdoor boxes and luminaires that may be with water, or high humidity. If masons or painters worked, check the boxes and cables in that area. Comment
unildo57
hace 5 años

I checked the outdoor luminaires and they all had photoelectric cells that turn on when it starts to get dark. None of them walked! They had burnt out bulbs, but if they were all full of dead bugs. Maybe this data can do your thing.

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nastor
nastor
17.232
hace 5 años

If there was moisture and bugs it is very likely. Wait to see what happens.

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unildo57
hace 5 años

Hello with the javelin installed, can I eliminate this leakage of current? Thank you

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nastor
nastor
17.232
hace 5 años

It does not eliminate the leakage, but it sends the existing voltage in the appliances and electrical elements affected by the loss to ground and prevents people from passing through the electric current.
When there is current flow to earth, the differential circuit breaker is activated, and if the ground is good, it can even trigger the thermal.
It is an additional safety element of the installation and people, next to the power cutter.

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unildo57
hace 5 años

I get it. But is not going to jump the circuit breaker that puts a javelin to the machine? That's how it is.? You will skip if a customer passes by and pink the metal part of the machine. What does that mean?

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nastor
nastor
17.232
hace 5 años

If you put the javelin, having a leak immediately jumps, and prevents the accident of someone touching that machine and receiving a discharge.
The javelin earthes the machine, does not blow the power cutter unless I know there is a leak
If there is no javelin, people can drive this to ground when there is a problem.

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unildo57
hace 5 años

Haa I understand it prevents the leakage of current from passing through the person.

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nastor
nastor
17.232
hace 5 años

exact

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unildo57
hace 5 años

The circuit breaker is three-phase 40 amp. And it already has about 7 years of use. The distribution cables are 4mm. They also have 3 cpu without grounding in their plugs. Apparently, what has been said previously about the change and cleaning of the external light bulbs with photocell is not because today the differential jumped again. The thermal discarded it in my opinion. I don't know where to go ....

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nastor
nastor
17.232
hace 5 años

Unildo, intermittent leaks are very difficult to detect for someone who is dedicated to that, if you read correctly you will see that I do not try to give you technical directives because it requires experience in finding failures, the most likely are the external luminaires but do not want them to always be there.
The only way to search "SIMPLE" is to make the trip of the differential circuit breaker permanent and thus be able to search it.
I guarantee that not all electricians will be able to find the problem, and if they succeed, I don't want to know how much they will charge you.

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nastor
nastor
17.232
hace 5 años

I commented the last three intermittent leaks that I had, this very recently, all together with the beginning of the rains (15 days).
The first one took a week, I went four times an average of two hours, I took the instrument (earth resistance meter) I only detected moisture without solving anything, I jumped every 10 hours or more. The problem was an outer box flooded by neighbor's work, when the wall dampened in rain. Ha this man I made a luxury barbecue house, so I did not charge even half the time.

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nastor
nastor
17.232
hace 5 años

The second one I found in half an hour, two-way led floodlight completely flooded, the same, fell three drops and jumped, the owner realized that it was the outdoor circuit. In that house he had made installation five years ago (450 pesos with lamp replacement); I found the fault in the previous review, good luck.

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nastor
nastor
17.232
hace 5 años

The last one was last Sunday, he jumped every six to seven hours, usually when it was drizzling. People who were not clients. I worked from 10 to 12 hours (2 hours), and I found the problem in a screw with a tip in a box that pricked a cable, I charged 1000 pesos for that work. The process was as follows, I reversed the installation and nothing happened, when I standardized the installation there it was put on permanent failure, then I began the search by sector. All problems have started now, during the drought there were no such failures. It looks like a pump, but you need someone who is on the subject.

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unildo57
hace 5 años

Thank you, your words serve to encourage you to continue looking for the critical failure. I'm going back to that house.

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nastor
nastor
17.232
hace 5 años

You just have to know that if you exceed a certain time working (not more than one day) everything you do you will not be able to charge, but if it will bring you experience, that's for sure.
Be careful to lose the neutral if it is a three-phase descent (let go), you can burn something

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unildo57
hace 5 años
hace 5 años
Hello to everyone who commented on this topic. I tell you that I found the problem, after a while; the drama was in an octagonal box of a wall that entered moisture. Outside, nothing was appreciated, but when I disassembled it, I found that there was the problem. The box had been disassembled with moisture and deterioration of the hair box parts at minimum return cable.
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