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Old Electronics

Radio valves with hum. World Radio Dance M-3

Jose171162
hace 6 años
hace 6 años
https://cdn2.yoreparo.com/uploads/imagen_post/0003/100/807f3a6df09864349d377e9e5d62f3d9f9626f9f.jpeg Hello everyone, this is my first time here. I have a valve radio from the ANCAR house in Barcelona, it is a World Radio Dance M-3 Melody series. I have no scheme, the problem is that I had burned the filter shock and wanted to know the value in Henrios and the value in Ohms of the coil resistance. Also know how many volts is the voltage of + B. Putting it to work by placing resistance of 1200 Oh instead of the shock makes me seem quite hum. I have changed the filter capacitors, of course, it seems that it had 20uF + 40uF. With no signal and volume to a minimum, you feel the annoying hum from room to room. 48 years ago this radio was newer than now and I was a child but I remember feeling that hum. Let's see if someone more experienced than me can explain to me where the problem is, or if he knows where to get the original scheme or the value of the shock and the tension + B. Take these valves: 6AJ8 6BA6 6AV6 6AQ5 6X4 I made the scheme by copying it according to the components in the chassis, if you see an error, I want to comment. I would appreciate any information. Regards.
axie
axie
15.131
hace 6 años

Look at this link, because I consider it can help you on this topic:
https://es.scribd.com/document/34368133/Calculo-Choques-de-Filtro
Regards.

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Jose171162
hace 6 años

Hello axie, I sent the shock to wind and gives 938 mH, almost 1 H and resistance in the coil gives 289 Oh, once placed it does not improve anything, I tried with a resistance of 1000, 1200 Oh and it does not improve either, now I have it working with the shock + a resistance of 1500 Oh, of course, the hum is not felt so much, but the + B drops to 182 V and therefore lowers in power volume. I think it should work well with a + B of about 220 V and no buzz, but it doesn't.

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Jose171162
hace 6 años

The 6X4 grinding machine only accepts 40 uF, I would like to know if I can increase the capacitor capacity to 330 uF after the inductance without affecting the grinding machine.
Anyway I tried to stabilize the + B with Zener diodes and I didn't have good results either. As I do not have an oscilloscope, I am not sure that it is the + B, since other radios work without so much hum with the same Pi filter.
I also distrust the preamplifier, because I have already seen two radios of this brand and the two were quite busy. I tried two 6AV6 and it buzzes the same, but since they are both used, I don't know ...

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Nico4706
Nico4706
3.081
hace 6 años

To find where the buzz is, you have to bridge the bars to ground, starting with the audio output, and continue to the converter valve

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Nico4706
Nico4706
3.081
hace 6 años

If the radio has a transformer, it is to be operated at more than 220 V, so that it has more power. It makes no sense to spend on a transformer, and run it at 170 V. The transformer is to give more power to the equipment, and also isolates the chassis phase. The filter shock is requested for the amount of milli amps it has to withstand. There are 50, 100, 200, 300 mA or more. If the crash is small, it will overheat and burn. For this radio, a 100 mA shock is sufficient, since the consumption of the 6AQ5 is less than that figure. The other valves consume very little mA. The m figure

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Nico4706
Nico4706
3.081
hace 6 años

The figure less than 1 Hy seems very little. The primary of a 220V to 6V transformer has approximately 8 Hy. The resistance that is after the crash is there. And if a resistance is added, an electrolytic must also be added, since the filter cell is RC. The capacitor is to stabilize the voltage. The cathode capacitor of the grinder must not exceed the maximum allowed. After the shock, it can be electrolytic of greater capacity, since the winding resistance will limit the maximum current of the grinding machine, and prevent it from producing a fire

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Nico4706
Nico4706
3.081
hace 6 años

and prevent a flash and burn the filament, but 330 µF is barbaric.

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pr122
pr122
10.397
hace 6 años
hace 6 años
if you say that again towards that buzzing it could be a design problem, try to separate the speaker that brings the output stream from the power supply, just to prove, there could be induction between the two, in the photos that are on the web the inductor is not seen, comment if the speaker is autodynamic or electrodynamic, greetings
Jose171162
hace 6 años

The speaker is permanent magnet and has the audio transformer attached. The power transformer is shielded but is below the speaker about 15 centimeters. I already had them separated and it buzzed the same way.

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Jose171162
hace 6 años

Removing the preamp does not buzz.

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Nico4706
Nico4706
3.081
hace 6 años

Bridge the gate of the 6AV6 to ground, to see what happens, if the hum continues or goes away

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Jose171162
hace 6 años

Bridging the gate of the 6AV6 to ground follows the hum.

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Jose171162
hace 6 años

The buzz only disappears when I fully remove the 6AV6.
Disconnecting the grid of the shielded cable that goes to the volume potentiometer is still humming.

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Jose171162
hace 6 años

It carries on the cathode R 3K3 and C 10uF in parallel to mass.
It carries in plate R 220K + 33K in series to + B.
10nF plate condenser.
All peripheral components to the 6AV6 are new.

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Jose171162
hace 6 años

I uploaded the scheme made by me, copied according to the components in the chassis. It seems that these were radios that were mounted in the workshops and may have some error, I don't know.
I put an autotransformer to work at 220V + resistance of 1K5 15W to lower the + B to 182V and thus improve the hum, but sacrificing volume (power).
Let's see if they can see the scheme and someone comes up with something. I have repaired few valves, they all did some hum but this brand seems to outperform the others in hum. Thank you.

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Nico4706
Nico4706
3.081
hace 6 años

It is the first time I see the circuit, what program did you use? If you bridged the 6AV6 gate to ground and the buzzing continues, it means that it originates from the fence onwards, including 6AV6. The only valve left is the 6AQ5, but as previously stated that removing the 6AV6 does not hear any hum, the hum is not generated by the 6AQ5, so that the hum is generated in the 6AV6. To corroborate, bridge the gate of the 6AQ5 to ground, with the 6AV6 in place, and you do not have to hear any buzzing, since it is going to be derived to mass. I see that the circuit is quite different from the

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Nico4706
Nico4706
3.081
hace 6 años

I see that the circuit is quite different from the common radios, especially in the connection of the 6AV6 valve. The volume potentiometer is connected directly to the 6AV6 grid without the corresponding capacitor of .005 µF. There is a capacitor that is before the potentiometer, it may be that that capacitor fulfills that function. It also lacks the gate resistance of the same valve, from 5 to 10 MΩ connected to ground. Just as the circuit is, the gate goes to ground through the volume potentiometer, but it would be a variable resistance, which depends on the position of the potentiometer and not

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Nico4706
Nico4706
3.081
hace 6 años

of a fixed resistance.

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Jose171162
hace 6 años

Well, I used the paint and gimp program, with the two programs I was building the circuit. I have other schemes made with a simulator called livewire and they look better but it doesn't have valve libraries and you have to do them by painting.

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Nico4706
Nico4706
3.081
hace 6 años

I have the livewire but it's not for valves, it's for some transistors and integrated circuits. One would be good for valves even if it is to draw the symbol of a valve

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Jose171162
hace 6 años

Bypassing the gate of 6AQ5, the hum disappears.
Regarding the grid resistance of 5 to 10 M, there are schemes that do not carry it, but I can try to put it in. I can change the condenser, although I don't think it affects the hum, but I'll try to see what happens.

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Jose171162
hace 6 años

I have always seen those crashes burned and I never knew how many henries were or amperage. I sent that to wind and now marks that, it seems to me little inductance. The resistance after the shock I put it to lower the voltage to 182 V and so it does not make so much hum, I tried to put electrolyte but I did not notice difference and I took it out provisionally.

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Jose171162
hace 6 años

I have seen a simulator that has some valve but I find it complicated.
The livewire is easy and the valves draw them to make the circuit although they cannot be simulated.

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Jose171162
hace 6 años

Regarding the power transformer, it has 115 to 135 V primary, what I did was adapt the current voltage (230V Spain) to the old mains voltage 125V with an autotransformer. If I measure voltages in secondary insulated network, of course it gives about 230 + 230 V,
I guess it will be a correct value, because if I give more input voltage, more voltage of 6.3 V passes to the filaments. I thought it was a right value as well.

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Jose171162
hace 6 años

I distrusted the preamplifier in regard to the hum, so I tried another and did the same, of course they are the two used for that reason I have the doubt. The radio came with a shield in 6BA6, I also tried to shield the 6AV6 but I didn't get any improvement.

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tony1.9diesel
hace 6 años
hace 6 años
I suppose you would also check the coupling capacitors of the valves, especially the coupling capacitor that goes to the gate of the audio output valve as well as the cathode condenser.
Jose171162
hace 6 años

I have changed these capacitors before. They were leaking.

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Jose171162
hace 6 años

Well, I even fed the filaments continuously to get out of doubt and nothing. It drives me crazy but I don't give up, I'll keep investigating. These days I am involved in placing platforms but with my mind in the radito because I also have it as an amplifier for FM and cell phone.

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Jose171162
hace 6 años

Thank you all. I hope that one day it will work well.

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tony1.9diesel
hace 6 años

The noise issue is quite complex because one of the valves themselves may be defective and the noise gets into you.

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Jose171162
hace 6 años

I think it is generated in the preamp, but also as another colleague said here, it may be a design problem.

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Jose171162
hace 6 años

Hello, I made a reform to food and tone, and it buzzes less. By changing the tone condenser for the preamp plate I can adjust the bass without increasing the hum, the earlier the more bass it buzzed. I corrected the power with the help of a program to calculate the filter, I also added a 10 uF capacitor to the pre-amplifier's plate feed. I uploaded diagram of the reform and also of the pi filter. I will continue studying, greetings.

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Jose171162
hace 6 años
hace 6 años
Hello, greetings to all; After adjusting the power filter and changing the tone circuit there was still some "hum" left and I managed to eliminate it by welding the negative of the 6av6 cathode capacitor directly to the meshes of the volume potentiometer that is on the other side of the chassis, I I explain, the 10 uf 63v capacitor (the negative) was welded in the chassis and the positive in the cathode of the 6av6, because now the negative of the capacitor is directly soldered to a cable that crosses the chassis to the other side where the volume potentiometer and there in the terminal where the negative meshes are welded I welded the cable, hence another part for the filter capacitor negatives. Well, this is it, the buzz disappeared and now it works well. The conclusion is that this radio is a brand kit but each one was mounted in his workshop and I imagine that they did not stop in the hum, there were also stations throughout the dial and if he sang it was enough, on the other hand, the bad chassis designed with a lot of space and little use, very large capacitors as of the time that there is nowhere to put them in part because of the bad design of the chassis, etc. I've only seen 2 radios of this brand, wired differently but the 2 buzzed so I reach these conclusions. Now I am happy with the result and upload the scheme with the latest cathode condenser reform of 6av6. Thank you all for helping and I hope my scheme can help someone. Greetings, see you and if there are opinions that are welcome
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